Comments on: Open and Affirming Church http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/ Sat, 04 Feb 2012 15:48:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-211 Joel Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:38:36 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-211 Oh yes, I haven't forgotten you. We made it to VA about a week ago and just unloaded the moving truck yesterday, and now it is on to unpacking boxes.Where should we go from here? Is this the best place for a discussion?I do suspect I will have more time in the coming days. Thanks for reminding me! Oh yes, I haven’t forgotten you. We made it to VA about a week ago and just unloaded the moving truck yesterday, and now it is on to unpacking boxes.

Where should we go from here? Is this the best place for a discussion?

I do suspect I will have more time in the coming days. Thanks for reminding me!

]]> By: Susan Jaquithhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-210 Susan Jaquith Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:54:17 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-210 Hi Joel. Hope your move went smoothly and you've had a little time to settle in. Would love to continue this discussion...Susan Hi Joel. Hope your move went smoothly and you’ve had a little time to settle in. Would love to continue this discussion…Susan

]]> By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-208 Joel Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:50:58 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-208 Susan, thank you so much for sharing your story. Please know that I am sorry for your loss.And thank you for giving me this new perspective to consider. It is down right shameful that the churches you encountered could not "take a stand" to honor another human being with the dignity of a memorial service. The O&A label (or lack of one) should not be what causes churches to be welcoming to all people, it should be because that is what Christ calls us to be.I do want to dialog more about your personal story, however I am on the road for another week while my wife and I move to Virginia. I will be more free to write after the move. Thank you again for sharing. Susan, thank you so much for sharing your story. Please know that I am sorry for your loss.

And thank you for giving me this new perspective to consider. It is down right shameful that the churches you encountered could not “take a stand” to honor another human being with the dignity of a memorial service. The O&A label (or lack of one) should not be what causes churches to be welcoming to all people, it should be because that is what Christ calls us to be.

I do want to dialog more about your personal story, however I am on the road for another week while my wife and I move to Virginia. I will be more free to write after the move. Thank you again for sharing.

]]> By: susanhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-207 susan Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:01:29 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-207 Sadly, many DOC folk believe "O&A" to be a political statement. A dose of reality: when my beloved brother (who happened to be gay)died unexpectedly of a stroke at age 59, our family suddenly faced the sad task of planning a memorial service. His partner of 24 years felt that for the sake of comforting my elderly parents, the service would need to be in a church (my parents are lifelong Disciples). We knew to expect a minimum of 300 of my brother and his partner's friends - as my brother was a co-founder of several lgbt square dance organizations in two metropolitan areas. With Disciple chuches in our area not wanting to take a "political O&A stand," there was no way to know whether we would be welcomed unless we called and asked. Quite frankly, the thought of having to play a guessing game with Disciple churches during a time of mourning the loss of loved one was not something any of us could stomach. It would mean calling DOC church offices, explaining my brother was gay and had suddenly died, asking could we have a memorail service there that would include 300 of his friends, would his life and union with his partner be celebrated, would we as his family and friends be honored and treated with dignity and respect...and so on. Because so many DOC churches see O&A as a "political statement" rather than a marvelous opportunity for reconcilng, healing ministry, my brother's partner and I chose the emotionally, spiritually healing route - we simply checked the listings of O&A congregations and made one call to a local UCC O&A congregation. They gave us the red carpet treatment, making it clear that "O&A" is about outreach ministry. There were 600 at the memorial service and their O&A statement was in the bulletin at our family's request. We didn't want anyone to wonder whether they were welcomed as Christ would welcome them. The church's O&A committee acted as ushers and prepared the fellowship hall for a reception afterwards. Their minister and worship committee helped us plan the service, my brother's holy union was blessed, people attending knew they were free to be open about their sexuality without making others "uncomfortable," etc. In the weeks that followed, my ninety year old father wrote a thank-you letter and enclosed a generous check to the church, acknowledging that his late son, as the church knew, was gay - and how grateful he (my dad) was that this UCC church openly welcomed gay people. He hoped that those attending were witnessed to - that his God is the God of gay people, too. In all of his active membership years in a DOC congregation, my father had never acknowledged having a gay son (even though this son served as president of Chi Rho and CYF for 6 years and always delighted the church with his sermon on Youth Sunday for 6 years back in the 1960s). Our family is forever grateful that there are churches such as Christ Congregational UCC that understand the need for an O&A ministry. If you've got Christ's light to shine, make it known. Too many Disciple churches sing the song, "This little light of mine, it's too political...I'm gonna hide it under a bushel so outsiders who need us will just have to guess..." Just a reality check from a 60 year old Disciple engaged in O&A ministries with the UCC. Sadly, many DOC folk believe “O&A” to be a political statement. A dose of reality: when my beloved brother (who happened to be gay)died unexpectedly of a stroke at age 59, our family suddenly faced the sad task of planning a memorial service. His partner of 24 years felt that for the sake of comforting my elderly parents, the service would need to be in a church (my parents are lifelong Disciples). We knew to expect a minimum of 300 of my brother and his partner’s friends – as my brother was a co-founder of several lgbt square dance organizations in two metropolitan areas. With Disciple chuches in our area not wanting to take a “political O&A stand,” there was no way to know whether we would be welcomed unless we called and asked. Quite frankly, the thought of having to play a guessing game with Disciple churches during a time of mourning the loss of loved one was not something any of us could stomach. It would mean calling DOC church offices, explaining my brother was gay and had suddenly died, asking could we have a memorail service there that would include 300 of his friends, would his life and union with his partner be celebrated, would we as his family and friends be honored and treated with dignity and respect…and so on. Because so many DOC churches see O&A as a “political statement” rather than a marvelous opportunity for reconcilng, healing ministry, my brother’s partner and I chose the emotionally, spiritually healing route – we simply checked the listings of O&A congregations and made one call to a local UCC O&A congregation. They gave us the red carpet treatment, making it clear that “O&A” is about outreach ministry. There were 600 at the memorial service and their O&A statement was in the bulletin at our family’s request. We didn’t want anyone to wonder whether they were welcomed as Christ would welcome them. The church’s O&A committee acted as ushers and prepared the fellowship hall for a reception afterwards. Their minister and worship committee helped us plan the service, my brother’s holy union was blessed, people attending knew they were free to be open about their sexuality without making others “uncomfortable,” etc. In the weeks that followed, my ninety year old father wrote a thank-you letter and enclosed a generous check to the church, acknowledging that his late son, as the church knew, was gay – and how grateful he (my dad) was that this UCC church openly welcomed gay people. He hoped that those attending were witnessed to – that his God is the God of gay people, too. In all of his active membership years in a DOC congregation, my father had never acknowledged having a gay son (even though this son served as president of Chi Rho and CYF for 6 years and always delighted the church with his sermon on Youth Sunday for 6 years back in the 1960s). Our family is forever grateful that there are churches such as Christ Congregational UCC that understand the need for an O&A ministry. If you’ve got Christ’s light to shine, make it known. Too many Disciple churches sing the song, “This little light of mine, it’s too political…I’m gonna hide it under a bushel so outsiders who need us will just have to guess…” Just a reality check from a 60 year old Disciple engaged in O&A ministries with the UCC.

]]> By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-148 Joel Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:23:21 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-148 I wasn't sure about your comment "By the same token only those to whom he has granted authority may teach and act in his name." I'm not sure where you were going with this, and what it has to do with the O&A designation.My main point is some who are teaching in his name are putting politics before Christ, and this shouldn't be. I wasn’t sure about your comment “By the same token only those to whom he has granted authority may teach and act in his name.” I’m not sure where you were going with this, and what it has to do with the O&A designation.

My main point is some who are teaching in his name are putting politics before Christ, and this shouldn’t be.

]]> By: Agelliushttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-147 Agellius Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:39:37 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-147 Joel writes, "How might that inform the current discussion about how churches get involved in social justice (and how they are defined by this)?"I thought your main point was that churches should define themselves by Christ's lordship, and not by the temporal activities they engage in. Joel writes, “How might that inform the current discussion about how churches get involved in social justice (and how they are defined by this)?”

I thought your main point was that churches should define themselves by Christ’s lordship, and not by the temporal activities they engage in.

]]> By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-137 Joel Sat, 30 May 2009 06:28:43 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-137 I think that is most wise in Disciples churches. In a twist of irony, it is mostly certainly possible to be so open that some are repelled. I have even heard some people go so far as to say "if you are not as open as us, you are not welcome here."Thanks for affirming the need to discuss this issue, I invite you to continue the conversation with me...and I got a post in mind about pastors out my way who are refusing to perform marriages in California until same-sex marriages are legal. I think that is most wise in Disciples churches. In a twist of irony, it is mostly certainly possible to be so open that some are repelled. I have even heard some people go so far as to say “if you are not as open as us, you are not welcome here.”

Thanks for affirming the need to discuss this issue, I invite you to continue the conversation with me…and I got a post in mind about pastors out my way who are refusing to perform marriages in California until same-sex marriages are legal.

]]> By: keithhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-134 keith Sat, 30 May 2009 03:43:14 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-134 Yes, do write more about the O&A label.One pastor friend out West told me of a church that refuses to label itself O&A not b/c they don't affirm homosexuals, but b/c they don't want to exclude from the table those who DON'T affirm homosexuals! Jesus especially loves those we find hard to love. Yes, do write more about the O&A label.

One pastor friend out West told me of a church that refuses to label itself O&A not b/c they don’t affirm homosexuals, but b/c they don’t want to exclude from the table those who DON’T affirm homosexuals! Jesus especially loves those we find hard to love.

]]> By: Bill McConnellhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-132 Bill McConnell Fri, 29 May 2009 18:59:27 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-132 Gee, Joel, nothing like hitting the nail on the head to make the rest of us hammer slingers feel uncomfortable. Gee, Joel, nothing like hitting the nail on the head to make the rest of us hammer slingers feel uncomfortable.

]]> By: Around the blogroll: What Disciples are blogging about this week « NewsMusehttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/05/open-and-affirming-church/comment-page-1/#comment-130 Around the blogroll: What Disciples are blogging about this week « NewsMuse Fri, 29 May 2009 18:03:43 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=194#comment-130 [...] a tangentially related post, The Prophet Joel asks whether the “Open & Affirming” designation adopted by some LGBT-friendly [...] [...] a tangentially related post, The Prophet Joel asks whether the “Open & Affirming” designation adopted by some LGBT-friendly [...]

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