Comments on: The Ordained Church http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/ Sat, 04 Feb 2012 15:48:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dan Clinehttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-791 Dan Cline Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:43:37 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-791 I suppose you could base an arguement on the 12 disciples. Right? Because they not only were choses by Jesus, but they followed and learned from him directly. Makes sense. Paul on the other hand is walking along the road to persecute Christians and is blinded. Upon taking on his personal ministry he was basically rejected by the 12. In fact, he didn't ask permission to go out and start proclaiming the gospel. He just did it. It wasnt until sometime AFTER that he actually met with Peter. I guess my point is this....the work is great and the workers are FEW. My opinion is that we don't have alot of time to mess around when we have hurting people. I feel most pastors that spend years of learning theology have missed the boat. They spend more time in their office writing a sermon and NOT building relationships to build and expand the kingdom. I don't disvalue education, but most leaders from the seminary today are acting like the Christian church is on the INCLINE. We all know the case....its on the DECLINE. People don't care HOW MUCH YOU KNOW, until they know HOW MUCH YOU CARE. So...I applaud the Disciples Church for thinking outside the box on this one. I suppose you could base an arguement on the 12 disciples. Right? Because they not only were choses by Jesus, but they followed and learned from him directly. Makes sense. Paul on the other hand is walking along the road to persecute Christians and is blinded. Upon taking on his personal ministry he was basically rejected by the 12. In fact, he didn’t ask permission to go out and start proclaiming the gospel. He just did it. It wasnt until sometime AFTER that he actually met with Peter. I guess my point is this….the work is great and the workers are FEW. My opinion is that we don’t have alot of time to mess around when we have hurting people. I feel most pastors that spend years of learning theology have missed the boat. They spend more time in their office writing a sermon and NOT building relationships to build and expand the kingdom. I don’t disvalue education, but most leaders from the seminary today are acting like the Christian church is on the INCLINE. We all know the case….its on the DECLINE. People don’t care HOW MUCH YOU KNOW, until they know HOW MUCH YOU CARE. So…I applaud the Disciples Church for thinking outside the box on this one.

]]> By: Dan Clinehttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-790 Dan Cline Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:36:16 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-790 What seminary did Paul go to? Just curious. What seminary did Paul go to? Just curious.

]]> By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-286 Joel Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:22:42 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-286 Gale, looking back I believe the "unteachable spirit" comment was a bit rash and I deeply apologize for offending you.My position on this question is constantly evolving. I stand by the need for a seminary education (MDiv) for presbyters, that is those who pastor a church. However, I believe to reserve the term "ordained ministry" solely to presbyters is inaccurate. I believe that licensed ministers are <em>ordained</em> for the ministry, even though DoC doesn't explicitly recognize this fact.In this particular post I argue for a more full understanding of ministry - that the entire church is ordained; ordination occurs at every baptism, ordination (as DoC now calls it), licensure, and call as regional minister. Among this wide range of ordinations, we cannot all be the same. Some are called to pastor churches, others to serve, others to oversight, and others to live faithful Christian lives along side their secular responsibilities. But of course, we can't all be feet - we can't all be presbyters. And we can't lessen the qualifications for ministry simply to make it more accessible for more people.Again, please don't interpret this reply as looking down on any of the other ordinations (License & Baptism) they are by all means equal in value, just not identical in function.Thank you for voicing your concerns here, and calling out my rash comment earlier. Gale, looking back I believe the “unteachable spirit” comment was a bit rash and I deeply apologize for offending you.

My position on this question is constantly evolving. I stand by the need for a seminary education (MDiv) for presbyters, that is those who pastor a church. However, I believe to reserve the term “ordained ministry” solely to presbyters is inaccurate. I believe that licensed ministers are ordained for the ministry, even though DoC doesn’t explicitly recognize this fact.

In this particular post I argue for a more full understanding of ministry – that the entire church is ordained; ordination occurs at every baptism, ordination (as DoC now calls it), licensure, and call as regional minister. Among this wide range of ordinations, we cannot all be the same. Some are called to pastor churches, others to serve, others to oversight, and others to live faithful Christian lives along side their secular responsibilities. But of course, we can’t all be feet – we can’t all be presbyters. And we can’t lessen the qualifications for ministry simply to make it more accessible for more people.

Again, please don’t interpret this reply as looking down on any of the other ordinations (License & Baptism) they are by all means equal in value, just not identical in function.

Thank you for voicing your concerns here, and calling out my rash comment earlier.

]]> By: Galehttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-285 Gale Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:41:50 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-285 I totally disagree with the comment, "Not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit...." Come on now, Joel! I am called to ministry at the age of 41 with three children, a mortgage, and I live in the country. I'm taking the "licensed" route rather than going to seminary because it's just not practical for me right now to get in debt, relocate my family, and force my husband to leave the job that he thankfully has! With the help of my pastor I've been learning everything I can about the Bible, the Scrolls, ancient history, interpretations, etc. Some call me obsessed; my goal being to rescue Jesus and his message from the abuses of history and the church. It was my pastor, in fact, who suggested that I go into actual ministry. So, before you make major assumptions, it's important to know about the ministerial candidate involved. Making assumptions often means your mind is dictating to your spirit - not a good plan. I totally disagree with the comment, “Not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit….” Come on now, Joel! I am called to ministry at the age of 41 with three children, a mortgage, and I live in the country. I’m taking the “licensed” route rather than going to seminary because it’s just not practical for me right now to get in debt, relocate my family, and force my husband to leave the job that he thankfully has! With the help of my pastor I’ve been learning everything I can about the Bible, the Scrolls, ancient history, interpretations, etc. Some call me obsessed; my goal being to rescue Jesus and his message from the abuses of history and the church. It was my pastor, in fact, who suggested that I go into actual ministry.
So, before you make major assumptions, it’s important to know about the ministerial candidate involved. Making assumptions often means your mind is dictating to your spirit – not a good plan.

]]> By: Joelhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-200 Joel Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:09:59 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-200 Thanks for the comment. I especially liked your line "not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit and does not take handling the Bible seriously."I honestly wasn't sure if you would be for or against this proposal. Thanks for the comment. I especially liked your line “not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit and does not take handling the Bible seriously.”

I honestly wasn’t sure if you would be for or against this proposal.

]]> By: Matt @ The Church of No Peoplehttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-199 Matt @ The Church of No People Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:53:31 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-199 A lot of pastors these days are foregoing the official 'ordination' for various reasons. Some do it for some kind of tax reasons, others to promote the equality of everyone in the church. Personally, it doesn't matter to me, but I agree with you, someone who decides to preach should be dedicated enough to the calling to learn a bit about the Bible in seminary. If one is mature, it won't kill your faith. But not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit and does not take handling the Bible seriously. A lot of pastors these days are foregoing the official ‘ordination’ for various reasons. Some do it for some kind of tax reasons, others to promote the equality of everyone in the church. Personally, it doesn’t matter to me, but I agree with you, someone who decides to preach should be dedicated enough to the calling to learn a bit about the Bible in seminary. If one is mature, it won’t kill your faith. But not going to seminary proves one has an unteachable spirit and does not take handling the Bible seriously.

]]> By: The Prophet Joel » Blog Archive » Disciples of Christ consider removing MDiv as requirement for ordinationhttp://theprophetjoel.com/2009/07/the-ordained-church/comment-page-1/#comment-193 The Prophet Joel » Blog Archive » Disciples of Christ consider removing MDiv as requirement for ordination Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:49:10 +0000 http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=250#comment-193 [...] READ THIS FIRST for some of my revisions after sleeping on it for a while. [...] [...] READ THIS FIRST for some of my revisions after sleeping on it for a while. [...]

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