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> <channel><title>Comments on: Church News Bulletin for Dec 9</title> <atom:link href="http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:34:22 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Agellius</title><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/comment-page-1/#comment-497</link> <dc:creator>Agellius</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:16:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=715#comment-497</guid> <description>I drafted my last comment in a hurry and so the point I originally had in mind was lost.  What I meant to say was, that if persons of homosexual tendency were to draw a line between &quot;who they are&quot; as persons and their sexual proclivities, rather than treating their sexual preference as if it were the very essence of their identity, that would make it much easier for them to, first, not be offended so often, and second, resist their temptations.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I drafted my last comment in a hurry and so the point I originally had in mind was lost.  What I meant to say was, that if persons of homosexual tendency were to draw a line between &#8220;who they are&#8221; as persons and their sexual proclivities, rather than treating their sexual preference as if it were the very essence of their identity, that would make it much easier for them to, first, not be offended so often, and second, resist their temptations.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joel</title><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/comment-page-1/#comment-489</link> <dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:06:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=715#comment-489</guid> <description>I think it may go a bit deeper than that too; to the idea that sex is something everyone is entitled to. I will be publishing a post tomorrow which critiques this idea.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it may go a bit deeper than that too; to the idea that sex is something everyone is entitled to. I will be publishing a post tomorrow which critiques this idea.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Agellius</title><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link> <dc:creator>Agellius</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:58:07 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=715#comment-488</guid> <description>Of course I agree that homosexuals should not be condemned &quot;as people&quot;.  No one is condemned by God &quot;as a person&quot; -- those who are condemned are condemned for their choices and actions.But I think it&#039;s largely homosexuals themselves who cause the &quot;orientation&quot; and the person to be conflated, when they say things like being gay is just &quot;who I am&quot;; or when they accuse Christians who oppose gay marriage of being &quot;hateful&quot;, as if you can&#039;t oppose the practice of homosexuality without hating homosexuals themselves.  By and large it&#039;s not Christians who say that homosexuals, rather than homosexual acts, must be judged.  More often it&#039;s homosexuals themselves who act as though you can&#039;t judge the one without judging the other.And to an extent, they have a point:  A person who does bad things is a bad person.  That&#039;s what &quot;bad person&quot; means.  Where the Church draws the line is in judging the extent to which any individual is bad, i.e. culpable for his sin.  Indeed in most cases we can&#039;t even know *whether* the person is guilty of a sin, not being privy to his private activities.  Nevertheless even when he is guilty we may not hate him, nor judge him unworthy of compassion.  For there but for the grace of God goes every one of us ...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I agree that homosexuals should not be condemned &#8220;as people&#8221;.  No one is condemned by God &#8220;as a person&#8221; &#8212; those who are condemned are condemned for their choices and actions.</p><p>But I think it&#8217;s largely homosexuals themselves who cause the &#8220;orientation&#8221; and the person to be conflated, when they say things like being gay is just &#8220;who I am&#8221;; or when they accuse Christians who oppose gay marriage of being &#8220;hateful&#8221;, as if you can&#8217;t oppose the practice of homosexuality without hating homosexuals themselves.  By and large it&#8217;s not Christians who say that homosexuals, rather than homosexual acts, must be judged.  More often it&#8217;s homosexuals themselves who act as though you can&#8217;t judge the one without judging the other.</p><p>And to an extent, they have a point:  A person who does bad things is a bad person.  That&#8217;s what &#8220;bad person&#8221; means.  Where the Church draws the line is in judging the extent to which any individual is bad, i.e. culpable for his sin.  Indeed in most cases we can&#8217;t even know *whether* the person is guilty of a sin, not being privy to his private activities.  Nevertheless even when he is guilty we may not hate him, nor judge him unworthy of compassion.  For there but for the grace of God goes every one of us &#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joel</title><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link> <dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:24:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=715#comment-487</guid> <description>Thanks for that clarification, Agellius. The media often misquote church leaders.I think what you spell out is primarily missing from the discussion on homosexuality in the church - that is the separation between orientation and action, the later being sinful but not the former.I fear that many (particularly in Protestant communions) go too far in condemning homosexuals as people; something I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that clarification, Agellius. The media often misquote church leaders.</p><p>I think what you spell out is primarily missing from the discussion on homosexuality in the church &#8211; that is the separation between orientation and action, the later being sinful but not the former.</p><p>I fear that many (particularly in Protestant communions) go too far in condemning homosexuals as people; something I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Agellius</title><link>http://theprophetjoel.com/2009/12/church-news-bulletin-for-dec-9/comment-page-1/#comment-485</link> <dc:creator>Agellius</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:15:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://theprophetjoel.com/?p=715#comment-485</guid> <description>You write, “[B]eing homosexual does not bar you from heaven nor from life in the Church.A couple of things to note:First, while the Church does not consider &quot;being homosexual&quot; a sin, it does consider homosexual sex a mortal sin.  And one who dies in unrepentant mortal sin, according to Catholic teaching, may very well be denied entrance to heaven.  Along these lines, the cardinal specifically states that &quot;*acting* [not merely &quot;preferring&quot;] against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God&quot;.  This is an accurate expression of Catholic teaching.Second, he said that the sinfulness of homosexuality &quot;does not justify any form of discrimination&quot;, and furthermore that &quot;We on earth cannot condemn, and as human beings we all have the same rights.&quot;The main problem I see with the statements attributed to him, is that they don&#039;t distinguish between &quot;being homosexual&quot; i.e. having homosexual tendencies, and &quot;engaging in homosexual sex&quot;.  Assuming he meant the latter and not the former, his statements are not at odds with Catholic teaching.Further, later on he did insist that he never meant to imply that we on earth can judge any individual as being worthy or unworthy of heaven, but was only pointing out the objective sinfulness of homosexual acts.  ( http://www.zenit.org/article-27740?l=english )  Again, this is consonant with Catholic teaching.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write, “[B]eing homosexual does not bar you from heaven nor from life in the Church.</p><p>A couple of things to note:</p><p>First, while the Church does not consider &#8220;being homosexual&#8221; a sin, it does consider homosexual sex a mortal sin.  And one who dies in unrepentant mortal sin, according to Catholic teaching, may very well be denied entrance to heaven.  Along these lines, the cardinal specifically states that &#8220;*acting* [not merely "preferring"] against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God&#8221;.  This is an accurate expression of Catholic teaching.</p><p>Second, he said that the sinfulness of homosexuality &#8220;does not justify any form of discrimination&#8221;, and furthermore that &#8220;We on earth cannot condemn, and as human beings we all have the same rights.&#8221;</p><p>The main problem I see with the statements attributed to him, is that they don&#8217;t distinguish between &#8220;being homosexual&#8221; i.e. having homosexual tendencies, and &#8220;engaging in homosexual sex&#8221;.  Assuming he meant the latter and not the former, his statements are not at odds with Catholic teaching.</p><p>Further, later on he did insist that he never meant to imply that we on earth can judge any individual as being worthy or unworthy of heaven, but was only pointing out the objective sinfulness of homosexual acts.  ( <a
href="http://www.zenit.org/article-27740?l=english" rel="nofollow">http://www.zenit.org/article-27740?l=english</a> )  Again, this is consonant with Catholic teaching.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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